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	<title>Comments on: The Balkanisation of the interweb</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.bruceongames.com/2008/07/18/the-balkanisation-of-the-interweb/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.bruceongames.com/2008/07/18/the-balkanisation-of-the-interweb/</link>
	<description>A veteran's view on marketing games</description>
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		<title>By: Evan</title>
		<link>http://www.bruceongames.com/2008/07/18/the-balkanisation-of-the-interweb/comment-page-1/#comment-2809</link>
		<dc:creator>Evan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jul 2008 13:04:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bruceongames.com/?p=620#comment-2809</guid>
		<description>Bruce, I share your dismay with what idiots (not always fanboys) have done to make many forums and blogs unpleasant to read.  It is widespread and not limited to gaming sites.  However, one thing that seems to feed the practice in gaming is that the industry pundits themselves often write articles or posts that are either openly biased or simply not well thought-out.  Perhaps this is just a sympton of the industry&#039;s youth, but it is really difficult to find consistently intelligent and balanced blogs and forums on the gaming industry.

Frankly, Bruce, you occasionally demonstrate this weakness yourself.  For example, your throw-away line about the &quot;way they [Sony] have screwed up this generation&quot; weakens the impact of the points you are trying to make in your post because it makes you come across as just another anti-Sony fanboy.  You have a right to your opinion, of course (and especially on your own blog), but broad generalizations simply encourage others to engage in fanboyism also.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bruce, I share your dismay with what idiots (not always fanboys) have done to make many forums and blogs unpleasant to read.  It is widespread and not limited to gaming sites.  However, one thing that seems to feed the practice in gaming is that the industry pundits themselves often write articles or posts that are either openly biased or simply not well thought-out.  Perhaps this is just a sympton of the industry&#8217;s youth, but it is really difficult to find consistently intelligent and balanced blogs and forums on the gaming industry.</p>
<p>Frankly, Bruce, you occasionally demonstrate this weakness yourself.  For example, your throw-away line about the &#8220;way they [Sony] have screwed up this generation&#8221; weakens the impact of the points you are trying to make in your post because it makes you come across as just another anti-Sony fanboy.  You have a right to your opinion, of course (and especially on your own blog), but broad generalizations simply encourage others to engage in fanboyism also.</p>
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		<title>By: Rodders</title>
		<link>http://www.bruceongames.com/2008/07/18/the-balkanisation-of-the-interweb/comment-page-1/#comment-2804</link>
		<dc:creator>Rodders</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jul 2008 07:41:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bruceongames.com/?p=620#comment-2804</guid>
		<description>Whilst I too tire of the fanboy wars I am very strongly opposed to this Akismet solution. I believe more in people&#039;s freedom of speech than one person&#039;s appraisal of an opinion. Is your criteria consistent and unbiased when acting as judge, jury and executioner in this way or, as your writings suggest, is there a degree of favouritism shown in your practices?

I don&#039;t read N4G but, frankly, I&#039;m not bothered about other&#039;s activities like this. There are as many vocal MS fanboys as Nintendo and Sony ones. They&#039;re more than capable of playing the same game by the same rules. If you refuse to participate then you have no grounds when you feel other parties have an &#039;unfair&#039; advantage.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Whilst I too tire of the fanboy wars I am very strongly opposed to this Akismet solution. I believe more in people&#8217;s freedom of speech than one person&#8217;s appraisal of an opinion. Is your criteria consistent and unbiased when acting as judge, jury and executioner in this way or, as your writings suggest, is there a degree of favouritism shown in your practices?</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t read N4G but, frankly, I&#8217;m not bothered about other&#8217;s activities like this. There are as many vocal MS fanboys as Nintendo and Sony ones. They&#8217;re more than capable of playing the same game by the same rules. If you refuse to participate then you have no grounds when you feel other parties have an &#8216;unfair&#8217; advantage.</p>
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		<title>By: Peer Lawther</title>
		<link>http://www.bruceongames.com/2008/07/18/the-balkanisation-of-the-interweb/comment-page-1/#comment-2802</link>
		<dc:creator>Peer Lawther</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Jul 2008 22:21:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bruceongames.com/?p=620#comment-2802</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s weird that since I left the games industry at the end of last year the amount of fanboyism I come across has reduced exponentially - travelling around the web is a breath of fresh air for me nowadays.

There will always be &quot;14-year-olds&quot; (OK, they&#039;re hardly ever 14 years old, they&#039;re just limited in their world view and see the anonymous nature of the web as a means to reinforce their narrow value system) but working in a different indutry sector has made me realise that a lot of the angst I saw out there previously was simply because the tech-savvy audiences for gaming and the web correlate so highly.

The best quote I came across about online communities came from http://www.emint.org.uk:

&quot;We should always think of community behaviour expectations in the same terms as a private party.

&quot;You&#039;re welcome to come along, be polite, mingle and tell me that the guacamole could be improved with a little more salt. 

&quot;You&#039;re not welcome to turn up, bang a billboard into my front lawn, call the guests a bunch of morons, start a punch up and tell anyone who&#039;ll listen that it&#039;s a crap party compared to the parties you host before telling the hostess her arse looks too big in that dress and departing.&quot;

Gaming websites (for example) has the latter types in droves; luckily I&#039;ve seen that in other arenas (the ones I work in nowadays) the former types are still plentiful.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s weird that since I left the games industry at the end of last year the amount of fanboyism I come across has reduced exponentially &#8211; travelling around the web is a breath of fresh air for me nowadays.</p>
<p>There will always be &#8220;14-year-olds&#8221; (OK, they&#8217;re hardly ever 14 years old, they&#8217;re just limited in their world view and see the anonymous nature of the web as a means to reinforce their narrow value system) but working in a different indutry sector has made me realise that a lot of the angst I saw out there previously was simply because the tech-savvy audiences for gaming and the web correlate so highly.</p>
<p>The best quote I came across about online communities came from <a href="http://www.emint.org.uk" rel="nofollow">http://www.emint.org.uk</a>:</p>
<p>&#8220;We should always think of community behaviour expectations in the same terms as a private party.</p>
<p>&#8220;You&#8217;re welcome to come along, be polite, mingle and tell me that the guacamole could be improved with a little more salt. </p>
<p>&#8220;You&#8217;re not welcome to turn up, bang a billboard into my front lawn, call the guests a bunch of morons, start a punch up and tell anyone who&#8217;ll listen that it&#8217;s a crap party compared to the parties you host before telling the hostess her arse looks too big in that dress and departing.&#8221;</p>
<p>Gaming websites (for example) has the latter types in droves; luckily I&#8217;ve seen that in other arenas (the ones I work in nowadays) the former types are still plentiful.</p>
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		<title>By: Gamers World Bangladesh</title>
		<link>http://www.bruceongames.com/2008/07/18/the-balkanisation-of-the-interweb/comment-page-1/#comment-2801</link>
		<dc:creator>Gamers World Bangladesh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Jul 2008 16:45:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bruceongames.com/?p=620#comment-2801</guid>
		<description>I JUST had to stop reading Bruce.

It&#039;s like you have taken the words right out of my mind and put it on your own blog. N4G was once a great site, but not so now, because it&#039;s taken over by Sony trolls. However, all hope is not lost and there are still some good posters.

Almost all the anti articles I submit to N4g get bogged down in complaints. And if you write something like PS3 Kicks 360 A*s, you can be dead certain it will be hottest news of the week in N4G. I just hate fanboyism.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I JUST had to stop reading Bruce.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s like you have taken the words right out of my mind and put it on your own blog. N4G was once a great site, but not so now, because it&#8217;s taken over by Sony trolls. However, all hope is not lost and there are still some good posters.</p>
<p>Almost all the anti articles I submit to N4g get bogged down in complaints. And if you write something like PS3 Kicks 360 A*s, you can be dead certain it will be hottest news of the week in N4G. I just hate fanboyism.</p>
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		<title>By: adam</title>
		<link>http://www.bruceongames.com/2008/07/18/the-balkanisation-of-the-interweb/comment-page-1/#comment-2799</link>
		<dc:creator>adam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Jul 2008 14:56:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bruceongames.com/?p=620#comment-2799</guid>
		<description>No. Just ... no.

This behaviour was already common back in the early 1990&#039;s. Which is before most people had even heard of the web. Google the Eternal September - FYI, that started in 1993.

This has always been the case. In general, it&#039;s naive blind faith in the ability of anyone to &quot;control&quot; information that causes sites to collapse. Do some research into Reputation Systems and you&#039;ll find ... there is - at present - no known reputation system on the planet that actually works. In the end, in a free democracy there&#039;s almost nothing you can control anywhere, and the main difference with the web is that it tends to quickly destroy the illusion of control that many people have built up.

But in most cases, they never had that control in the first place. They were some combination of: temporarily very lucky, naive (simply unaware of what was already happening in their own community), irrelevant (only a tiny minority of their target demographic actually participating), etc.

And the biggest point of all: your example of the University Professor being shouted down by the 14 year old boy? Well, that&#039;s exactly what we want. Yes, 90% of the time it sucks. But without the ignorant declaiming the stupidity of the wise, most of the important advances in human understanding wouldn&#039;t have taken place. And who&#039;s guarding the sanctity of these Professors anyway? I&#039;ve known many university professors who were eclipsed by their own undergraduates. I&#039;ve known a few who were eclipsed by teenage secondary school students.

So, count me out of this culture of control :).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No. Just &#8230; no.</p>
<p>This behaviour was already common back in the early 1990&#8217;s. Which is before most people had even heard of the web. Google the Eternal September &#8211; FYI, that started in 1993.</p>
<p>This has always been the case. In general, it&#8217;s naive blind faith in the ability of anyone to &#8220;control&#8221; information that causes sites to collapse. Do some research into Reputation Systems and you&#8217;ll find &#8230; there is &#8211; at present &#8211; no known reputation system on the planet that actually works. In the end, in a free democracy there&#8217;s almost nothing you can control anywhere, and the main difference with the web is that it tends to quickly destroy the illusion of control that many people have built up.</p>
<p>But in most cases, they never had that control in the first place. They were some combination of: temporarily very lucky, naive (simply unaware of what was already happening in their own community), irrelevant (only a tiny minority of their target demographic actually participating), etc.</p>
<p>And the biggest point of all: your example of the University Professor being shouted down by the 14 year old boy? Well, that&#8217;s exactly what we want. Yes, 90% of the time it sucks. But without the ignorant declaiming the stupidity of the wise, most of the important advances in human understanding wouldn&#8217;t have taken place. And who&#8217;s guarding the sanctity of these Professors anyway? I&#8217;ve known many university professors who were eclipsed by their own undergraduates. I&#8217;ve known a few who were eclipsed by teenage secondary school students.</p>
<p>So, count me out of this culture of control <img src='http://www.bruceongames.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> .</p>
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		<title>By: cliffski</title>
		<link>http://www.bruceongames.com/2008/07/18/the-balkanisation-of-the-interweb/comment-page-1/#comment-2798</link>
		<dc:creator>cliffski</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Jul 2008 11:18:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bruceongames.com/?p=620#comment-2798</guid>
		<description>That last link is an interesting read, but I&#039;m buggered if I can work out how it amounts to &quot;Blogs and forums being attacked by idiots&quot;...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That last link is an interesting read, but I&#8217;m buggered if I can work out how it amounts to &#8220;Blogs and forums being attacked by idiots&#8221;&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: woodins</title>
		<link>http://www.bruceongames.com/2008/07/18/the-balkanisation-of-the-interweb/comment-page-1/#comment-2787</link>
		<dc:creator>woodins</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jul 2008 11:28:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bruceongames.com/?p=620#comment-2787</guid>
		<description>True bruce,

Im a 360 owner (well, kinda, my 2yr old 360 has just recently given up the ghost, now i have a HD and a stack of games and no console - im not bitter, just unlucky, i was one of those saddos who bought the PS2 when it first came out and had a machine that promptly died back on me then too lol) and I have to say that I am sick and tired of this fanboy war that seems to be raging. I dont think i have ever seen it this pervasive on the internet.

I wouldn&#039;t just say it is PS3 owners though. I came into contact with your blog via MCV, and that fine website is regularly ruined by all the fanboy comments that are posted by both 360 and PS3 zealots. I&#039;m surprised, as a trade mag, comments aren&#039;t restricted. I have noticed that indie store owners very rarely post comments now because of this issue.

As mentioned before though bruce, you don&#039;t mind the odd dig at Sony from time to time yourself though eh?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>True bruce,</p>
<p>Im a 360 owner (well, kinda, my 2yr old 360 has just recently given up the ghost, now i have a HD and a stack of games and no console &#8211; im not bitter, just unlucky, i was one of those saddos who bought the PS2 when it first came out and had a machine that promptly died back on me then too lol) and I have to say that I am sick and tired of this fanboy war that seems to be raging. I dont think i have ever seen it this pervasive on the internet.</p>
<p>I wouldn&#8217;t just say it is PS3 owners though. I came into contact with your blog via MCV, and that fine website is regularly ruined by all the fanboy comments that are posted by both 360 and PS3 zealots. I&#8217;m surprised, as a trade mag, comments aren&#8217;t restricted. I have noticed that indie store owners very rarely post comments now because of this issue.</p>
<p>As mentioned before though bruce, you don&#8217;t mind the odd dig at Sony from time to time yourself though eh?</p>
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		<title>By: Callum Godfrey</title>
		<link>http://www.bruceongames.com/2008/07/18/the-balkanisation-of-the-interweb/comment-page-1/#comment-2786</link>
		<dc:creator>Callum Godfrey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jul 2008 10:48:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bruceongames.com/?p=620#comment-2786</guid>
		<description>Hi Bruce,

On the whole I agree with your points here.  Going back a few years the internet was a great tool for developers and publishers to get some buzz and excitement around their titles.  

Increasingly though you find that video games forums are being posted full of negative comments and flaming of the products you work on, by and large from people (and ignorant 14 year olds!) who have never made a video game, have no grounding in technology or creative, and who are trying to score points by being as negative and abusive as they can be.

Even within closed forums I am finding this increasingly common, such as the forum for an MMO I am looking at during its closed beta.

I&#039;m all for freedom of speech, but if you have nothing valid to contribute other than narrow minded opinion and sensationalism then perhaps the best place these people can exercise their freedom is away from public domain such as the internet?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Bruce,</p>
<p>On the whole I agree with your points here.  Going back a few years the internet was a great tool for developers and publishers to get some buzz and excitement around their titles.  </p>
<p>Increasingly though you find that video games forums are being posted full of negative comments and flaming of the products you work on, by and large from people (and ignorant 14 year olds!) who have never made a video game, have no grounding in technology or creative, and who are trying to score points by being as negative and abusive as they can be.</p>
<p>Even within closed forums I am finding this increasingly common, such as the forum for an MMO I am looking at during its closed beta.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m all for freedom of speech, but if you have nothing valid to contribute other than narrow minded opinion and sensationalism then perhaps the best place these people can exercise their freedom is away from public domain such as the internet?</p>
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		<title>By: Codemaster</title>
		<link>http://www.bruceongames.com/2008/07/18/the-balkanisation-of-the-interweb/comment-page-1/#comment-2785</link>
		<dc:creator>Codemaster</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jul 2008 10:37:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bruceongames.com/?p=620#comment-2785</guid>
		<description>If you want to see examples of the inanity of &#039;yoof&#039; check out the comments section on any random YouTube video.  I really wish google would allow me an option to never see the comments, as I find them depressing observations of my fellow man. 

I&#039;d be worried though about any unregulated system of &quot;reporting&quot; commentators a person didn&#039;t like, and your manner of putting it: &quot;And Akismet progressively closes down that person’s rights on the interweb&quot; is very worrying.  If Akismet has no avenue for a person to defend themself against an accusation, especially given the ease of mistaken identity on the internet, I&#039;d say its a bad thing. I love the freedom of the internet and am happy to tolerate some chaos rather then see rules imposed. 

Oh, and Playstation u sux and Xbox360 rulez :) And Bruce is a big girls blouse!! :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you want to see examples of the inanity of &#8216;yoof&#8217; check out the comments section on any random YouTube video.  I really wish google would allow me an option to never see the comments, as I find them depressing observations of my fellow man. </p>
<p>I&#8217;d be worried though about any unregulated system of &#8220;reporting&#8221; commentators a person didn&#8217;t like, and your manner of putting it: &#8220;And Akismet progressively closes down that person’s rights on the interweb&#8221; is very worrying.  If Akismet has no avenue for a person to defend themself against an accusation, especially given the ease of mistaken identity on the internet, I&#8217;d say its a bad thing. I love the freedom of the internet and am happy to tolerate some chaos rather then see rules imposed. </p>
<p>Oh, and Playstation u sux and Xbox360 rulez <img src='http://www.bruceongames.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  And Bruce is a big girls blouse!! <img src='http://www.bruceongames.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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